Joe Baffone on the Role of Data in Transforming Healthcare
In today’s episode, we have the pleasure of speaking with the remarkable Joe Baffone, an expert in the healthcare industry. With a focus on busting through administrative toxicities that lead to financial toxins, Joe discusses their comprehensive tooling and tech-enabled services that manage financial assistance for provider organizations.
Join us as Joe dives into the impact of personalized immunotherapies, the challenges in managing patient care journeys, and the transformational role of data. We also get a glimpse into Joe’s reading preferences and their book recommendations. Stay tuned for an enlightening conversation with this compassionate capitalist on changing the world through the power of data.
Show Notes
[00:02:34] Joe Baffone, CEO of Anexis Health, wants to revolutionize healthcare data.
[00:04:13] Leading advocacy groups and healthcare companies professionally.
[00:07:52] Equities of care: improving healthcare journey management.
[00:09:50] Automated, comprehensive healthcare management with patient access.
[00:16:24] Data is important, helps improve patient therapy.
[00:18:52] Eye-opening stories managing a growing team.
[00:23:27] Life altering diagnosis, overwhelming paperwork and fees.
[00:26:27] EHR systems make healthcare data sharing easier.
[00:28:50] HIPAA and privacy concerns collide with medical data, but de-identification and aggregates can help.
[00:33:19] FHIR APIs transforming data sharing in healthcare.
[00:36:41] Data is essential to prove world-changing ideas.
[00:39:55] Making a difference gives me satisfaction and fulfillment.
[00:43:54] Clinical roles in pharma, administrative challenges, suicide epidemic, blood markers can help act quickly.
[00:44:58] Logistical challenges in personalized immunotherapies affecting healthcare.
[00:50:48] Grant Cardone’s book: Be Obsessed or Be Average
[00:52:13] Love reading, Bible daily, thought-provoking thrillers.
Transcript
In this captivating episode of data driven, we engage in a thought
Speaker:provoking discussion about equities of care and disparities in the health
Speaker:care system. Our guest explains how patients
Speaker:experience varying levels of care based on their unique circumstances,
Speaker:an issue that undoubtedly impacts both the health care system and the
Speaker:patients themselves. We discuss the administrative
Speaker:inefficiencies and lack of effective management in healthcare systems.
Speaker:Can data and AI really fix this issue? Listen
Speaker:to find out.
Speaker:Hello, and welcome to Data Driven, the podcast where we explore the
Speaker:emergent. Right? It's no longer emerging. Fields of data science,
Speaker:machine learning and artificial intelligence, and, of course, data engineering, which
Speaker:is really the foundation for all of the good stuff that we're gonna talk about
Speaker:today. How you doing, Andy? I'm well, Frank. How about yourself? I'm
Speaker:doing alright. I'm still working on memorizing the season 7 kinda intro,
Speaker:which is probably by the time this show goes out, it's It's been a
Speaker:little different each time. So Sure. But it's all good. I I like
Speaker:the, the emphasis on data engineering, of course. Mhmm. I'm
Speaker:Naturally. But, totally
Speaker:totally get that. And, I'm really excited about,
Speaker:today's guest. Cool. Yeah. Me too. I I will add
Speaker:that that before we talk about our guest, that the the emphasis of
Speaker:data engineering isn't just for you. It's mostly for you. Well,
Speaker:thanks, Frank. I appreciate that. The more work I've done in
Speaker:in enterprises, the more I realized that, you know, this is
Speaker:It is foundational. Right? And and and if you follow me on on my Red
Speaker:Hat channels and things like that, you know, I have this this talk, you know,
Speaker:red, rock stars and roadies. Right. Like, our office hours talk, by the way.
Speaker:Oh, thank you. Yeah. And, you know, and I use the
Speaker:example of Taylor Swift because my niece is a huge fan of hers. Right? So
Speaker:people buy the tickets for Tay Tay. Right? But Tay Tay's concert
Speaker:wouldn't be awesome. I'm not a fan. Right? So I'm not and they don't
Speaker:hate. I don't fan. I'm very neutral. I'm Tay I'm Tay Tay neutral. Right?
Speaker:And my my my Tay Tay Probability wave has
Speaker:function is not collapsed yet. So, that's
Speaker:a quantum computing joke, which you will get or you won't
Speaker:get or neither, I suppose, which is another joke. Anyway,
Speaker:it really comes up that that, you you know, it's important. Right? Like, the the
Speaker:rock star is important. That's who sells the tickets, but Absolutely. The
Speaker:performance can't go on without all the people that go in. So roadies.
Speaker:Yeah. With that, I'm gonna we're gonna have a great conversation with Joe
Speaker:Bethone, or Bethony. I'm not we'll get the corrected pronunciation in a
Speaker:minute. He's the cofounder and CEO of Anexis Health, a leading health care
Speaker:tech company That helps lessen Nice. Administrative and
Speaker:logistical barriers across the patient experience, increase access to
Speaker:care, reduce financial burdens at both Patient and provider
Speaker:levels. His goal is to change the world by building a culture around health care
Speaker:data that people wanna be a part of. Welcome to the show, Joe. Thanks so
Speaker:much, Frank. Hey, Andy. Hey. Yeah. It's it's we had a
Speaker:little bit of a chat in the virtual green room here, and we'll get to
Speaker:that maybe at the, as the show progresses. But, just
Speaker:wanna welcome you, Joe, to the show. The, the the
Speaker:goals, the mission, of the company just sounds amazing.
Speaker:It sounds what exactly is needed. Right? Yeah. So so
Speaker:so tell us about how did you how'd you get here? Like, how'd
Speaker:you How'd you get there? How'd you hit that
Speaker:frustration point? What made you take the action, and then what your firm is
Speaker:doing? Yeah. Yeah. I I think that it It took me
Speaker:longer to get here than I than it should have. Right? I
Speaker:think I'm more stubborn than I ever thought, And
Speaker:maybe it just takes me longer to learn. I spent a lot of time in
Speaker:the pharma industry doing a bunch of different things.
Speaker:So the things that I did in pharma that relate to what I'm doing
Speaker:today, were around roles I
Speaker:played in the business of oncology. Alright. So
Speaker:I did things like create payer focusing teams, facing
Speaker:teams, led reimbursement Teams. I led
Speaker:relationships in big health care companies. I
Speaker:had the opportunity and the blessing To lead
Speaker:our relationships with advocacy groups. And
Speaker:that was probably one of the most meaningful experiences in my
Speaker:professional career Because it got me
Speaker:into this seat to watch people that dedicated their
Speaker:entire Professional life. 2, advocating on
Speaker:behalf of patients. In this case, cancer patients.
Speaker:So it was extremely meaningful for me
Speaker:To watch people or to interact with people and try
Speaker:to play some kind of meaningful role in the
Speaker:lives of those that were looking to impact the lives of
Speaker:patients with a cancer diagnosis. So that was a really cool
Speaker:opportunity. I did learn a lot through all of These
Speaker:other experiences, another big experience was
Speaker:leading relationships with large health care
Speaker:companies. Large health care companies that supported and sold
Speaker:into pharma. So what I learned was
Speaker:there's a lot of crap out there. Right? And there's some good stuff.
Speaker:And learning the ability to kinda
Speaker:sift through things, learning the ability to say, hey, this looks really cool,
Speaker:But how do you measure it? Right? There's a kind of a data story in
Speaker:that. Right? Right. So ultimately,
Speaker:I spent too much time because I'm Stubborn,
Speaker:and I think that I learn quickly, but sometimes I refuse
Speaker:to learn On other's terms. Right? And
Speaker:so other's terms, the Andy God, in this case. Right?
Speaker:Where there is a there there's a plan in play here. So, Ultimately,
Speaker:I don't have any regrets, and, really, the honest truth is is I needed all
Speaker:those experiences to help me as an operator. So I stepped out of
Speaker:pharma. I did the operator gig somewhere else prior to this
Speaker:and it was around data. It was around taking clearing house
Speaker:data, bringing it in, And creating meaning and action
Speaker:to that date. Meaning so it's clearing us data for
Speaker:claims and remittance. And there's a lot of good data in there. Right? But
Speaker:it's all how it's packaged. Right? So in the oncology space,
Speaker:provider organizations are buy and bill. They have pharmacy dispensing software,
Speaker:So they've got skin in the game. Certainly, the patient has skin in the game
Speaker:and stuff not getting paid for it is getting paid for. Right? So we
Speaker:ingested the data. We looked at it closely. We found out what was going
Speaker:on with things that were being denied. Why was it being denied?
Speaker:What are the things that we could do to impact Denials or
Speaker:approvals or time to payments. Right? And that all impacts patient
Speaker:care. So we took that data. We ingested We
Speaker:created meeting in action. We created pretty pictures, and we sold in to
Speaker:pharma. We help providers, right, help their patients.
Speaker:So during that time, as an operator, we
Speaker:were discovering and exploring other things to truly have an
Speaker:impact on improving access to health care for
Speaker:patients. And so at that time, in
Speaker:that role as an operator With other partners,
Speaker:we actually were working with another software company to start to build the
Speaker:bones of our technology at Anexis Health today,
Speaker:And that is assist point. We can get a little into a little bit more,
Speaker:about that later, but that's the journey that led me to
Speaker:Anexis Health. Do we wanna pause and banter or,
Speaker:go through some questions, or you want me to tell you a little bit about
Speaker:Anexis Health? Well, I'd like to know more about Anexis Health. I mean, there's there's
Speaker:a lot to unpack what you said, but I think if we kind of if
Speaker:you close the loop and kinda see what you do, that might that might make
Speaker:the questions a little more clearer. Yeah. And I think to the audience and maybe
Speaker:you guys, depending on how much time that, you
Speaker:guys spent just looking at our website, Ultimately, there's a big
Speaker:conversation going on right now around equities of care.
Speaker:I don't know if you guys have heard about that, but ultimately,
Speaker:Whether you call it equities of care or disparities of care,
Speaker:there is a real issue in our healthcare system
Speaker:where Based on specific circumstances,
Speaker:patients are getting care or not getting care, or getting care
Speaker:in a different way. Right? And it's having an impact on our health care system.
Speaker:It's having an impact on patients. So it's it's really interesting
Speaker:that this is a really hot topic. We actually started building
Speaker:building this this concept of a company really before
Speaker:this became a hot topic. So what we're solving for
Speaker:is actually improving the
Speaker:way the health care journey is managed. And our focus
Speaker:is busting through administrative toxicities That often lead to
Speaker:financial toxins. So how do we do that? Yeah. We
Speaker:basically provide a comprehensive
Speaker:Tooling through technology and through
Speaker:services, tech enabled services, to manage
Speaker:financial assistance start to finish For provider organizations.
Speaker:So it could be a community provider, and we're in 14 different disease
Speaker:states now. We started in in oncology. And, ultimately,
Speaker:What we do for provider organizations as it relates to financial
Speaker:assistance is 4 key pillars, search and roll, track, and adult.
Speaker:So if you guys know anything about the health care space and revenue
Speaker:cycle management, ultimately, what we do for financial assistance
Speaker:is that complete cycle of management around financial
Speaker:assistance, and and it does a couple things that are really important. Number 1,
Speaker:it makes the providers whole Economically so that they can continue to treat
Speaker:patients the way they need to. It takes a burden off
Speaker:of the patient, so they get the health care they deserve.
Speaker:And, ultimately, we're making this heavy administrative
Speaker:process and function cleaner, Easier,
Speaker:more automated, more comprehensive, and so that's 1 that's what we
Speaker:started. Right? That was the the MVP that we created, And then
Speaker:we started to develop other tools around access. And
Speaker:so management of free drug is a really important thing in the
Speaker:space. It's something that is needed to get patients on the
Speaker:therapy that they need, but often, it's a net
Speaker:negative To life science, to the provider, even to the patient
Speaker:because of what's actually not being paid for wrapped around that. And so
Speaker:we do a really good job of Managing that, making sure that where there's an
Speaker:opportunity to convert patients to other assistance options to get
Speaker:commercial drug, we do that as well. So those things
Speaker:that we're currently doing right now, inclusive of making sure that
Speaker:everyone has access to other services like travel, Lodging,
Speaker:psychosocial, other other services are in one
Speaker:destination, in one place. Now Why is
Speaker:this a big thing? Because before we started doing this, really, we were the
Speaker:1st to market with this provider centric comprehensive way of
Speaker:approaching things. It was all spreadsheets. It was fax machines. It
Speaker:was post it notes. It was free text notes in EHRs and rev
Speaker:cycles. So it was a mess, And that was
Speaker:our competition. Now our vision our vision of this organization
Speaker:is to bust through in more administrative top systems
Speaker:by providing the enterprise platform for provider
Speaker:organizations. So it could be community providers, health
Speaker:systems, institutions. The enterprise platform
Speaker:we that that we wanna provide is focused on administrative logistics. So in
Speaker:the health care system, provider organizations have Three key technology
Speaker:enterprise platforms, the EHR, the electronic health record,
Speaker:the revenue cycle management system, the cash register, And
Speaker:and the intake engine and the pharmacy dispensing software.
Speaker:All of those systems are not designed to manage
Speaker:The administrative logistics of the patient's care journey. So as
Speaker:a country, we talk about equities of care. We talk about managing the
Speaker:patient experience in their health care journey, and we haven't
Speaker:tooled the space to do that effectively. Right? And if
Speaker:you think about it, Most of the if you guys have
Speaker:individual experience or family experience or friend experience, getting
Speaker:a diagnosis of cancer or some
Speaker:disease that is associated with the sophisticated disease
Speaker:states like gastroenterology, rheumatoid arthritis. I could go on and on. That's a
Speaker:heavy piece of information to receive. Right? Oh, it's a life changing
Speaker:event. Oh my god. And then they said, go figure it out. I think you
Speaker:should get this, But go figure out all these scenarios, like, how you're gonna pay
Speaker:for it? Is there help out there? Right? Are you going to have
Speaker:to be at a certain, like when we talk about disparities,
Speaker:Andy, you live in Farmville, Virginia. I don't know how close the the
Speaker:the the really top notch next level
Speaker:Center you would go to for a cancer diagnosis, but Yeah. Getting there
Speaker:and getting there on a regular basis is something that we struggle with. Right? So
Speaker:if you're in rural America or there's other scenarios around Urban America. Anyway,
Speaker:there's a lot of administrative functions that aren't managed
Speaker:effectively, and it's all one off. So the things that we wanna Really
Speaker:carve out and manage from an enterprise approach
Speaker:with provider organizations is the remote nature of patients that are
Speaker:on oral therapeutics. The cell and gene space is
Speaker:heavily laden with administrative logistics, the testing,
Speaker:diagnostics, and genomic profiling space. So
Speaker:by doing that, we're creating a technology network. We're pretty big
Speaker:already with our current state. And by creating that technology
Speaker:network, We create the ecosystem by which
Speaker:services and data solutions flow through, and pharma invests
Speaker:heavily in that To automate, to make sure there's fulfillment
Speaker:to impact 3 key things. Getting patients on intended therapy,
Speaker:Getting them on therapy quicker and keeping them on therapy because we know
Speaker:from our data, when there is an a therapeutic
Speaker:designed and there's scientific evidence around the impact it
Speaker:has. And if you do those 3 things, you're gonna improve outcomes.
Speaker:So That's what we're doing as an organization. I
Speaker:I wanna tell you guys that I am a capitalist
Speaker:at heart With a purpose to change the world. You said that earlier, and that's
Speaker:something that we can be and can do. Well, that's
Speaker:true. They're not mutually exclusive, and there's a lot There's a lot
Speaker:of unpacking that. Right? And then and just as, you know,
Speaker:thank God I never had a cancer diagnosis, but
Speaker:just Doing stuff in the health care system. Right? Yeah.
Speaker:Just doing anything in the health care system. You look at the mass
Speaker:quantities of paperwork that has to go And I mean, not just
Speaker:paperwork, like, in the term, but, like, actual paper that's still
Speaker:used. Like, you mentioned post it notes and spreadsheets. About the
Speaker:fax machine, Frank. Or the fax machine. It's crazy. And
Speaker:it's, like, I'm just in my back of my head, like, that little
Speaker:data engineer in me is Freaking out because, oh my god, like, that's
Speaker:at least it's like there's n number, x number of formats,
Speaker:and and and and it just And, you know, people
Speaker:of this show know, like, that is that is a huge,
Speaker:barrier. Like, that's a and that's a big
Speaker:That alone is it will will block it. And you kinda look at it like,
Speaker:can't this be better? And, you know, and I kinda see, like, oh, yeah. You're
Speaker:still using fax machines. Wow.
Speaker:Yeah. So so it's kinda interesting where when I
Speaker:was talk talked to you about How how we start and what we're doing
Speaker:around this equities of care thing. And
Speaker:what's going on in this space is
Speaker:It's very similar to Frank, Andy, how you describe
Speaker:on, your website around the what's
Speaker:going on with data Related to the old what
Speaker:went on with oil. Right? So when we think about
Speaker:equities of care, when we think about the health care Space.
Speaker:What you guys describe around the data opportunity
Speaker:is incredible. I think about it on a couple different levels. Number
Speaker:1, You can tell I'm passionate about what I'm doing. Right? Absolutely. And
Speaker:you can tell that hopefully,
Speaker:you Stan, right, I'm on this program because data is really important to me. But
Speaker:it's super important to me for a different reason than it is to you guys.
Speaker:And I think But there's some similarities. Right? Where Oh, sure.
Speaker:Data make data makes a freaking difference. Right? And so for me,
Speaker:to sit here and tell you my story, Or to sell into life science, or
Speaker:to sell into a provider, or sit on another podcast that I was
Speaker:on yesterday and describe how we're impacting the market,
Speaker:I have to have data to tell the story to be able
Speaker:to prove that I can, actually, in my company, right,
Speaker:can improve the likelihood that a patient's gonna get on therapy, and we do.
Speaker:Right? To make sure that we're demonstrating with what we do, we're getting patients on
Speaker:therapy quicker. We're getting patients on therapy and maintaining them on
Speaker:therapy. So in everything we do, we're constantly analyzing
Speaker:the data to demonstrate that we're doing those things. But, Frank, I
Speaker:think you said something earlier, or maybe we're talking offline about, like,
Speaker:the the whole idea of well, no. You just said it. Right? Like, the
Speaker:cumbersome nature of the paperwork Process. Yeah. Right? I think
Speaker:about some of the things that we do. Right? We wanna we wanna get rid
Speaker:of the spreadsheets. We wanna get rid of the paper. But sometimes we
Speaker:can't do it fast enough. Right? So We're constantly
Speaker:iterating on our technology. So the iteration in our
Speaker:technology has to include machine learning and AI and RPA.
Speaker:And you know what? You don't invest in that heavily, if you don't understand it
Speaker:deeply, then you're gonna spin and spin
Speaker:and spin. And then, ultimately, my unit economics Don't improve because I got
Speaker:people doing stuff that they shouldn't be doing, processing paper or
Speaker:manually entering something in the system that should be
Speaker:automated. So I, anyway, besides the fact that I'm really
Speaker:passionate about what I do, when I started to read about you guys and listen
Speaker:to some of your podcasts, you got me, you got me all fired up. Now
Speaker:I wish you Oh, cool. This Friday because I was ready to roll. Oh, that's
Speaker:awesome. Thank you. Thanks for that feedback, Joe. And I know I've had
Speaker:a Couple of experiences that I could, you kinda
Speaker:relate to what you're talking about. 1, I, worked for
Speaker:Unisys for a couple years, And we did Medicaid,
Speaker:systems, MMIS systems. And so you've got
Speaker:kind of that it it's a bit of a fringe element or at least people
Speaker:kinda think of it that way. It's not quite like,
Speaker:the big insurance companies and stuff, and I I've done work on their data as
Speaker:well, helping them with data engineering there. That's that's what I
Speaker:do. But it was very eye opening to
Speaker:see, You know, to see and hear the stories and
Speaker:managing a team that grew to 40 people. That was new
Speaker:for me as well, but the key was Picking a story and
Speaker:going with that and saying it was a it was a pharmacy story. And
Speaker:it was sometime in the future after we deploy this,
Speaker:Some grandmother is gonna go and try at 10 minutes to 5 on
Speaker:a Friday, afternoon, and Monday's a holiday. She's
Speaker:gonna try and fill her prescription. And if she doesn't fill
Speaker:it, she doesn't know this, but if she doesn't fill it, she's not gonna make
Speaker:it till Tuesday. And so our job is to make
Speaker:sure that that grandma gets her prescription in plenty of time before
Speaker:the pharmacy closes at 5, and that she gets to live for
Speaker:however long she's supposed to and enjoy her life and have her children and
Speaker:grandchildren, you know, enjoy her life. And
Speaker:Pausing in the middle of a presentation of that and just watching
Speaker:the, you know, they, at this point, we were all remote
Speaker:watching the faces on the screens And everybody kind of got that
Speaker:and it resonated. And it's your the stories you're
Speaker:telling, I I feel are in alignment with that. You're you're focused
Speaker:on the outcome. And the outcome is people's lives are
Speaker:better or longer or both. The other personal
Speaker:story is my my dad passed away in 2019, and
Speaker:he lived in Appalachia, so a couple 100 miles west of
Speaker:here. And, you know, I've I've done,
Speaker:I've been very honored to to be able to go and do
Speaker:missions work in Honduras. I have few few mission trips down
Speaker:there. And that area out there is not it
Speaker:it's it's way closer to Honduras than it is to where I was. I've been
Speaker:in Farmville. It's just It's neglected,
Speaker:almost. And and people are struggling even now,
Speaker:and they were back then as well. And but yet and still,
Speaker:there were there were good hospitals there. There were doctors there that were caring. I
Speaker:met with them, talked with them. They were doing their level best. But
Speaker:When I mentioned that I did data after we had, had
Speaker:built a little bit of trust, when I I worked on data, they they
Speaker:kinda opened up to me, and they were describing Problems similar to what
Speaker:you're solving. The EHR systems that they just
Speaker:hit a blocker. And and this is not a complaint. Everybody's doing their
Speaker:best. It just wasn't there yet. And
Speaker:what you described sounds like a big part of the
Speaker:solution that a a conversation I had with 1 of dad's docs.
Speaker:So that's it's amazing. I think that there are companies out
Speaker:trying to solve that. And the technology has gotten so
Speaker:ubiquitous and connectivity, so ubiquitous and and the
Speaker:tech's so cheap that it's while it looks
Speaker:like a large jump from filling in the forms or typing in Excel
Speaker:To working on a tablet, it's really not anymore. So Well, I
Speaker:I I I I would take the contrarian point of view of that because, like,
Speaker:it Okay. It
Speaker:I I I wonder, like, it's very easy as a technologist,
Speaker:right, to just assume everybody's gonna Comfortable with technology. Right? You're not wrong,
Speaker:Andy, but it's just about the patients, mind you. My dad, Andy, my
Speaker:tablet? No. Probably even the medical even the doc,
Speaker:The medical field is a field that is driven has always been driven
Speaker:by data. Right? Like Yeah. You know? But they are not Data
Speaker:driven. And, you know, that's not a plug for the podcast, but, like, it just
Speaker:it's like you know, for instance, right, and and a more lighthearted thing. Right?
Speaker:This that's not life and death. Right? I have a Fitbit. I I I track
Speaker:my heart rate. I I I, you know, I I track a lot of data
Speaker:and track my weight. I go into my doctor and,
Speaker:You know, I show it was like a group practice. I showed her, like, you
Speaker:know, this is the data, like, you know. Because, you know, you look at my
Speaker:profile, my age, my height, my weight, like, You know, but I'm like,
Speaker:here's my resting heart rate. Here's all the data I have on my heart rate.
Speaker:Yeah. And she just looked at me like I was insane. And I'm
Speaker:probably you're definitely an you're not insane. But you are an anomaly, I think, that
Speaker:you not only track it, but you present it, to your
Speaker:doctor. So But, you know, you think of that you know, it just seems like
Speaker:some doctors, I think, are more open to the idea.
Speaker:Well, I guess there's multiple angles to this. This is probably why it's a difficult
Speaker:problem to solve. Right? Because there there's there's Yeah. So many players, but everybody
Speaker:has their own different systems. Right. And, you
Speaker:know, I I just I just can't I mean, this is there's so much to
Speaker:unpack. Right? Like, because I can't imagine Yeah. You're getting a some kind of
Speaker:Bad diagnosis, and
Speaker:that's a life changing event. And then you're thrown all of this stuff, like, you
Speaker:know, like like like, all the things that That Joe had said, it's just like
Speaker:Yeah. You know, how I mean, on a normal like, just a
Speaker:like, I had a knee surgery, like, 10 years ago. I mean, the the knee
Speaker:surgery, was 3 months from, you know,
Speaker:doctor said you need to do it to what was done. And then, like, 3
Speaker:years later, I'm still getting paperwork, Like, oh, this has to be paid. Like and
Speaker:it's just like, I I just can't imagine,
Speaker:like, it just I don't know. Like, that just blew my mind. Like,
Speaker:3 years later, like, I I I I I half expect to get email
Speaker:at mail at the new house, like, hey, you still owe us $5
Speaker:and A $50 processing fee, which, again, like,
Speaker:is so bizarre. It's it's interesting too
Speaker:what's going on in the space, so So, actually, to both of your points.
Speaker:Right? So we've come very far. Mhmm. I just think about some of the
Speaker:things that the federal government does that's A colossal failure, and then I think about
Speaker:some things that are favorable. So let's stay positive. Right? Sure. So as it
Speaker:relates to system and it relates to data, You know, the
Speaker:federal government launched this meaningful use thing
Speaker:years years ago, and the health care system
Speaker:battled. Providers battle over this, being forced
Speaker:into using an electronic chart system,
Speaker:right, versus This paper, you still go into
Speaker:these practices and you still see they've got their manila folders up
Speaker:on on the wall. And, ultimately, they
Speaker:it was initially a carrot, and then it became a stick, and there was a
Speaker:lot of complaining. And there was some heavy economic toll. Right? Because the
Speaker:amount of money that the federal government was giving through meaningful use wasn't
Speaker:meaning. Right? Mhmm. But provider organization struggle for what we're all
Speaker:better for. We all are better better for it, and
Speaker:we're better for it because of data. But we still struggle. Right? Because if
Speaker:you're not capturing this data in a way Through or the data
Speaker:is an input in fields? You guys know. Right? You're not
Speaker:capturing structured data. Right? You're capturing Right. Free text notes. What the hell do
Speaker:you do with that? And I don't care how good you think you are at
Speaker:natural language processing. There's still people you gotta apply to it and still
Speaker:ineffective. Right? Right. So I just think about that movement
Speaker:and and how it's getting much better, and we are trying to force everyone to
Speaker:think about forcing this in the field. Let's understand the fields. Right?
Speaker:Because the next level of what the federal government has done
Speaker:very positively, again, is interoperability. So meaningful
Speaker:use became interoperability. Now everybody's talking about shell
Speaker:sharing health care data that we used to put walls
Speaker:around. And that's, yes, such crap They were putting walls
Speaker:around that, and the primary reason was because people wanted to make money. Right?
Speaker:Mhmm. So the federal government has decided that this health care data is the patient's
Speaker:data. Let's figure out a way to share data through a standard
Speaker:API approach. Right? And Right. Although we're way far from that,
Speaker:It still has actually made the conversation easier. It's made it
Speaker:easier for Nexus Health to do the data
Speaker:thing To allow us to do what we do from a tech and services
Speaker:perspective much easier and much better because I'm talking to these EHR
Speaker:systems, these rev cycle systems, these pharmacy dispensing systems,
Speaker:these data aggregators or institutions or whatever it may
Speaker:be, and where they may have sat in a place where they're like,
Speaker:no. You can't come anywhere near my data because I would have
Speaker:monetized it, and they had no interest in changing the world. Right.
Speaker:But then Right. To change the world by putting money in their pockets so they
Speaker:could go spend it somewhere else. Right? So now I think the the industry is
Speaker:looking at it a little differently, And it's opening
Speaker:up. I think getting back to the original point that I wanted to make, though,
Speaker:I think things are getting better. I think it's light new day
Speaker:Different than it was, like, 10 years ago, but we still have basic challenges.
Speaker:Right? Like, I think about one of the things that we're facing right now,
Speaker:where I need to create a
Speaker:better system by which we connect with charitable foundations
Speaker:because it's really bulky, what we're solving for there. The charitable
Speaker:foundations are a five zero one c three. They don't have the people, the time,
Speaker:the FTEs to engage in some basic conversations.
Speaker:Like, we make things really easy. And if anybody's listening from charitable
Speaker:foundations, please contact Sunexis Health because we can make your life
Speaker:easier. We could make you do better at what you do. You're gonna get more
Speaker:money in because that we improve it, and we're gonna cost you less money by
Speaker:the way you process things. But ultimately, people are resistant. There's not a lot of
Speaker:time. So I'm trying to RPA things. Right? But if I've got an
Speaker:unwilling participant because They think it's gonna be too much,
Speaker:or they think there's gonna be security risks. And they're not even willing to
Speaker:have the conversation that if I wanna do The really clean,
Speaker:easy way without their participation, they got
Speaker:stuff blocking my box. And alls I wanna do is the right
Speaker:thing for the patient. Right? So, yeah, we can we can solve for that and
Speaker:do that. But guess what? You know how much money we're Spending to solve for
Speaker:this and iterate on this thing. And ultimately, every penny I
Speaker:spend on that kind of crap, and it makes it more expensive for me,
Speaker:Then it makes it harder for me to impact patients. So there's
Speaker:Every cycle every cycle you spend doing that is a cycle you're not
Speaker:spending. Sorry, Andy. I got you off. That's okay. No. And and you've got
Speaker:some well intentioned regulation, HIPAA,
Speaker:And and just other privacy concerns, just general,
Speaker:personally identifying information type stuff that that's out
Speaker:there. And it all collides, I think at at medical
Speaker:data. So, you know, I while I understand some of
Speaker:the resistance that you're seeing and I and I kinda get where it's coming from
Speaker:and and agree with that Part of it, there's ways
Speaker:to de identify data and and go after aggregates,
Speaker:especially if you're Trying to do what you're trying to do. You're trying to smooth
Speaker:out the system for everyone. You're not while while it will
Speaker:benefit individuals, you're not going after individual data.
Speaker:So and there's other things. Right? Like, you just gotta make sure. And you do
Speaker:have to put some time into it. Right? Like, isn't excess help legit? Right?
Speaker:Well, there's things that can understand if they're legit or not. Are you SOC
Speaker:2? Are you HITRUST? Right? So there's things that we are
Speaker:doing from a regulation perspective That make it easier for us to
Speaker:trust those that wanna prevail in the data. So do you think
Speaker:that people or organizations hide behind regulations
Speaker:by saying, like, oh, that's that's HIPAA. We we can't do that, or
Speaker:it's too much of a risk. Is that is that a thing? It was like
Speaker:I think, we I think we can all agree that HIPAA has been has
Speaker:its use. Right? It has its purpose, but I don't understand. Has that been a
Speaker:has that been a have people used that as blockers? For Unequivocally,
Speaker:yes, Frank. Unequivocally, yes. Yeah. And and I and
Speaker:it might it could be It's anywhere. It's
Speaker:anywhere. It it is and and I think about the segments of our business. Right?
Speaker:So working with a large Health system
Speaker:or institution. Right? And and my people are
Speaker:dealing with 3 lawyers, 2 security
Speaker:folks, 3 compliance folks, 4 regulators, and
Speaker:Wow. They all have a really important purpose in this. Mhmm.
Speaker:But If their purpose is to say no
Speaker:and Mhmm. Say no, hiding
Speaker:behind Regulations
Speaker:and policies versus Yeah. Understanding the reason for that
Speaker:regulation and Policy and being solution oriented? Oh my
Speaker:gosh. Yeah. So it blocks or cost time and money at the
Speaker:provider on the same thing in the life science world, Right? Where
Speaker:you have lawyers that they're there to do the job. They they have to.
Speaker:Right? Because no life science company OIG coming down on them for
Speaker:whatever the reason, but you have to be solution oriented. You gotta look
Speaker:at the organization. You gotta make sure that organization is
Speaker:actually doing what it's saying it's doing, and there's
Speaker:ways to test that and look into that, versus saying no. And and and that's
Speaker:like, you can you can hear, Frank, The passion and my answer on that question?
Speaker:Oh my gosh. I've spent so much time and so much money
Speaker:getting through Those that sit in a seat that they're hiding
Speaker:behind something because it's easier to say no than to work to a
Speaker:solution. Yeah. That is that is true.
Speaker:What are your thoughts about the fire? The, f
Speaker:h I r. Is it pronounced fire or is it fear? Because I've heard both.
Speaker:I say fire, and I'm using the authority on the way things are
Speaker:said. But what's
Speaker:fascinating is so so the previous job, I, you know, I
Speaker:I was, technology architect for data and AI at at
Speaker:at one of the MTCs, Microsoft Technology Centers, And I had never heard
Speaker:of fire. Right? I've been out of the, electronic health record space
Speaker:since 2006, and so I it was completely
Speaker:new to me, and I would blow my mind. It shouldn't blow my mind, but
Speaker:it was like, wow. This is actually a couple things blew Wow. People
Speaker:actually in this space got together to work together? That blew
Speaker:my mind. 2, it was both, Java's, JSON
Speaker:and XML compliant, Which I thought was pretty pretty cool.
Speaker:Has that helped? Is that is that been a good kind of kind of having
Speaker:a common language for these systems to talk to one another?
Speaker:Yeah. So I think, generally speaking let's just step back. So so fire,
Speaker:I think there's a lot of conversation around it because that's how the federal government
Speaker:has decided to put language around the standards. Right? The
Speaker:standard for communicating. So fire API. So I think just the
Speaker:API Approach is yes. It's
Speaker:all good. Right? So let's standardize the way we're gonna share
Speaker:information in a safe private matter. So, yes, it has changed the
Speaker:game, but the whole discussion around FHIR and creating FHIR APIs and
Speaker:standards of communication has opened the door
Speaker:incredibly to this
Speaker:idea that we should be really investing
Speaker:in sharing data and we can't Sit in a
Speaker:position of hiding behind something or just being scared to death. So Yeah.
Speaker:I think that the the the conversation, And I think the
Speaker:work being done and I think the work being done, and then, absolutely, the
Speaker:application. Right? So whether we describe that we're Using
Speaker:a FHIR API or we're using an API approach
Speaker:that we've created the specs around or we're working with someone else's
Speaker:specs, A whole idea that you can communicate between between
Speaker:with these application programming interfaces is
Speaker:Life changing. Right? Because there's still a lot of stuff that we're doing through h
Speaker:l seven, ADT feeds. There's stuff that we're absorbing in a
Speaker:flat file. Right? And I can't wait for the day that all of it is
Speaker:through API. Why? Right. Because it's gonna be better. It's gonna be cleaner. It's gonna
Speaker:be faster, And it's god, I hope gonna be less
Speaker:expensive. Well, yeah. I mean, you're right. Go ahead, Frank.
Speaker:Sorry. No. Anytime you say flat file, it's kinda like,
Speaker:Yeah. I started to sweat. I said it. I start my palms are sweating.
Speaker:Right? I I had those sinking feeling in my stomach. So I'll get the
Speaker:task Andy's memory. We had a guest that made an analogy, and I only remember
Speaker:part of it where it was basically Data data professionals
Speaker:were, used to be kind of guardians or
Speaker:gatekeepers, and now they're shopkeepers. I forget who said
Speaker:that. That's Donald Farmer. That's what I thought.
Speaker:I wasn't sure. So so we had a show, and he's like he kinda has
Speaker:wax is very philosophical because data at one point was Hidden
Speaker:within an enterprise. There were silos were considered normal. But I think
Speaker:now what you're talking about with all these different parties, like Like you said,
Speaker:they have to open it up. They have to be like a store almost. Obviously,
Speaker:with HIPAA and things like that, there has to be some constraints, but Yeah. But
Speaker:I think it's a mindset shift. My mindset shift. I didn't
Speaker:say that. What I was gonna say. Yeah. It's definitely a mindset
Speaker:culture switch. And I like you, I cringed a little bit
Speaker:when I heard an EDI, you know,
Speaker:specification. And I believe h l seven was one
Speaker:of those. I've it's been a while, but, yeah, those were hard those
Speaker:are hard to load. And I just did a recent blog post related
Speaker:to that. I I titled it h, sorry, XM held.
Speaker:XM held. This
Speaker:is, you know, give me anything, something,
Speaker:anything other than XML. But But that but as we're
Speaker:having that conversation, The different formats and the ways that we, the company,
Speaker:a data company so we're we're a health care solutions company, but we're a
Speaker:data company at heart. Right? Right. So I think about
Speaker:How we wanna be better every day around ETL. Right? So
Speaker:extract, transform, and load. And and I just think about
Speaker:the pain that we've been through, The process that we've been through,
Speaker:but the whole idea is that if we're gonna do this data
Speaker:thing right, Right? Yeah. And we are there's gonna be
Speaker:individuals. There's gonna be companies that are gonna invest in this. Like,
Speaker:there's a lot. There's a lot to doing this. There's a lot to being in
Speaker:this game for us, right, as data people. And I'm
Speaker:not a real data person. Right? I'm a I'm a I'm I'm
Speaker:a I'm a change the world geek, and and so you guys ask questions, I
Speaker:think, typically, in our website, like, what brought you to data? It's because
Speaker:data is the only way that I wanna prove that we can change the world
Speaker:and then how we do it better. But this whole idea that we've gotta invest
Speaker:so much money And extract, transform, and load.
Speaker:Right? I don't care. Like, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna say this to demonstrate I
Speaker:don't know what I'm talking about. But the amount of money we're investing in palaces
Speaker:and lakes and Rivers and whatever the hell that is for ETL.
Speaker:Right? It's crazy. Like, let's just get ourselves wrapped
Speaker:around the fact that Figuring out the best way
Speaker:to share data, figuring out the best way to ingest
Speaker:data and be able to study it in a meaningful way Yeah.
Speaker:Changes the world, and that's what I wanna do. And I that's why I love
Speaker:what I see that you guys are doing. Right? Oh, thanks. Well, thanks.
Speaker:Yeah. This is an awesome conversation. We can go on for another
Speaker:hour, but, probably good times. Yeah. It's all fun at the
Speaker:moment. Well, I'm on these guys
Speaker:So you kinda touched upon the first question we asked, which is how did you
Speaker:find your way into data? Did you find data or did data find you?
Speaker:You know what? And and and I I let out some of the stuff that
Speaker:I pre prepared, but, like, literally all good. Yeah.
Speaker:Literally, I, for the longest time, knew I
Speaker:wanted to change the world. I just didn't know how the heck I was gonna
Speaker:do it. Right? Yeah. So as I started to think about things and I started
Speaker:to look at things, data points are really like, I think
Speaker:in bullet points. I think in spreadsheets. Not even knowing that I was a
Speaker:data guy, I tell our data scientist lead all the time that,
Speaker:you know, that's what I wanna do next. I want to learn how to be
Speaker:a data scientist. Right? Because I'm nowhere near that. Like, I gotta go to probably
Speaker:50 years of slow learner, 50 years of schooling to to be that. But it
Speaker:was it was this this thing that's changed the world geek inside of
Speaker:me that let me know I was constantly absorbing data
Speaker:points. And so once I cited or
Speaker:once God laid on my heart what I actually wanted to do. Right?
Speaker:Then it became really clear to me
Speaker:The data is the way to do it. Right? Data is the way to decide
Speaker:what you wanna do. Data is the way to decide you is the way to
Speaker:decide How you build it better, how you structure it. Data is the way
Speaker:you prove what you've intended to do is working, and then
Speaker:data will tell you what to ship and what to change to. So, Anyway, I
Speaker:was brought to it, but I guess in my heart, I always was that kind
Speaker:of data geek. I just need to learn a lot more to be as cool
Speaker:as you guys. Oh, We're constantly learning
Speaker:too. It keeps changing on us, Joe, so it's all good.
Speaker:Our second question is which go ahead. I love the story. I love the
Speaker:story in data. Right? Oh, yeah. There are there are stories in
Speaker:every data point. Ab absolutely. And that's a really good way to
Speaker:kinda get everybody on the same page. We've been listening to stories
Speaker:since, you know, we were kids, so, you know, that helps.
Speaker:Our our second question is, what's your favorite part of your current gig?
Speaker:When I go back to the stuff I'm saying over and over again, it's making
Speaker:a difference. Right? So It's good. I told you guys I was a
Speaker:capitalist, through through. But it's not about
Speaker:making money. I've done a bunch of different things in my professional life and
Speaker:made money. Right? That I, Andy, when you're talking
Speaker:earlier, I don't get satisfaction fulfillment
Speaker:from my job, There's professional satisfaction
Speaker:that comes along with your work, and, ultimately,
Speaker:I get that satisfaction through making a difference. So I just feel like,
Speaker:man, I'm and and I guess I shouldn't be putting this out there, but
Speaker:at 57 years of age, I had no
Speaker:intention or no idea that I'd be working the kind of hours that I'm working,
Speaker:but I can't wait. I'm a real early riser, and it's because I can't wait,
Speaker:it's not because I'm stressed out, it's because I can't wait to get to work
Speaker:and make a difference. That's fantastic.
Speaker:Awesome. So we have, 3 complete the
Speaker:sentence, questions. When I'm not working, I
Speaker:enjoy blank. Interesting.
Speaker:Surfing. Cool. So you're on the East Coast you mentioned just a minute ago.
Speaker:Yeah. Where do you surf? So I have a place in
Speaker:Bethany Beach, Delaware, and so I'm storm chaser. I'm a hurricane chaser,
Speaker:but I will you know, I'll I'll find ways to get to places
Speaker:that have really good waves on a regular basis. Awesome.
Speaker:Awesome. Our next our next fill in the blank,
Speaker:is I think the coolest thing in technology today is
Speaker:blank. The pace of change. I think that,
Speaker:Andy, you guys were Frank both were talking about this
Speaker:earlier, and I think we were talking about it through the conversation, like, the differences
Speaker:that we've seen. And I think that, like, you you use the analogy
Speaker:of oil. We can also use the analogy of the
Speaker:industrial revolution and, like, how things change so rapidly.
Speaker:Everybody talks about the technology revolution. I mean, I think we should be talking about
Speaker:the data revolution, right, about what's going on and how fast it's
Speaker:all changing. So I I think that, ultimately,
Speaker:It's really cool. It's really cool no matter what frustrations I express,
Speaker:no matter what, you know, ripping off on
Speaker:about, you know, the fax machine. The pace of change is really cool right
Speaker:now, and I'm wired that way. Right? Like Nice. I think I love
Speaker:what I do every day because it's not predictable, and it changes
Speaker:Very rapidly. It does. Yeah. So, Frank, we need
Speaker:a new order for a t shirt. So, we've got Data is the
Speaker:new oil That's right. And which, listeners can pick up and
Speaker:help the show out. We need one for the, data
Speaker:revolution now. I think Joe inspired me. Yeah. I think, I think I'll
Speaker:be I'll be hitting up Photoshop later today. But
Speaker:the, Or maybe even DALL E. Who knows? I may I don't even have to
Speaker:do the actual artwork. So that's an interesting
Speaker:point because there was there was something you talk about data and and how it
Speaker:can transform it's Transform everything. Right? So one of the stories I heard was
Speaker:this is regards to staph infections, and I forget,
Speaker:speaking of rogue AI, Alexa, stop.
Speaker:She's like, She I don't know how what I did to trigger her, but
Speaker:the the short of it is is that there was a story about a, a
Speaker:woman lost her child Because he had some kind of staph infection
Speaker:or whatever, and she mentioned the notion of
Speaker:data leakage. Right? So it turns out, Again, I'm getting the details
Speaker:wrong. But, basically, if you track your heart rate or heart rate var
Speaker:variability, There's a signal in that
Speaker:in that data that there's some kind of massive infection,
Speaker:but most times, you know, when you're in the hospital, they only check your
Speaker:pulse but so often. So that I think that's a good example of how
Speaker:data can transform medicine. And is
Speaker:that is that something you've seen or heard of? Or
Speaker:or just getting the fundamentals right is just so is the process right
Speaker:now. So I think that, you know, I
Speaker:was involved a little bit more on the clinical side at different
Speaker:roles in pharma because But right now, I'm so focused
Speaker:on the administrative and logistical challenge
Speaker:associated associated with The
Speaker:care journey, I would say, I'm sure. There's example
Speaker:after example of that. Right? I think about some things that I've
Speaker:seen, right, in terms of Very similar things
Speaker:where, I just was exposed to something recently about
Speaker:suicides, and the The the the
Speaker:epidemic in the way certain groups are
Speaker:deciding to to to do this, and
Speaker:There's data in it. Right? Like, there's there's blood markers
Speaker:that are telling for okay. What happened? And what are
Speaker:we looking at? Why did that happen? That we can act more quickly.
Speaker:Right? So Yeah. To to help that that that
Speaker:person. So I think, absolutely, we probably could Bring somebody clinical
Speaker:line and talk to that all day long. But I can tell you the thing
Speaker:that I see that's really meaningful where and this will have an
Speaker:impact on health care. Right? The cell and gene Area
Speaker:is crazy with logistics. So these personalized immunotherapies, I don't know if
Speaker:you guys have heard much about that, where basically, You're
Speaker:having a patient go get blood drawn,
Speaker:have their t cells spud off, or sending it to a manufacturing
Speaker:Right. Then they're creating a personalized therapy for
Speaker:that patient, then it has to be shipped to a treatment
Speaker:which is not typically where the primary care is going on, and then that patient
Speaker:has to have things set up for the logistics around the 30 day inpatient
Speaker:stay, the care I just hit on a few things, but the
Speaker:logistical challenges in all of that, if you improve
Speaker:one thing that typically there's, like, 20 to 30 steps in
Speaker:that And they all take dates. If you can use technology to
Speaker:shrink those elements down, wow. These
Speaker:things are Curing. These personalized immunotherapies, we're not
Speaker:calling them cures yet, but I'm telling you, like, no evidence of disease. It looks
Speaker:like it's curing patients Where they were on 4th line of therapy, and they were
Speaker:gonna be dead in a month. It's having real impact, and
Speaker:technology Process improvement
Speaker:can really impact health care, and those are the things that we wanna study. When
Speaker:I think about data, like, I wanna be able to study that Time in motion,
Speaker:and how are we having an impact in the cell and gene space? I absolutely
Speaker:love that. Just just that the whole concept of reducing the
Speaker:steps. And if you can move you got somebody who's
Speaker:been diagnosed and and given a month to live. You're
Speaker:You're changing the you're moving the needle significantly if you
Speaker:can stop it from being Monday morning and make it Friday
Speaker:afternoon. I mean, that's significant, and
Speaker:that's amazing. It sounds like, oh, you're shuffling papers. Well,
Speaker:if you wanna look at it that way, knock yourself out. But I'll
Speaker:guarantee you, you know, that person is having that starfish
Speaker:experience where, you know, there's a kid on the beach picking up Starfish and
Speaker:throwing them back into the water, and somebody walks up and says, you know, what?
Speaker:You're this is useless. You're you know, they're just gonna wash back up
Speaker:again. Doesn't mean anything, and a kid says it means a lot to that
Speaker:one. He just chunked. For sure. Well,
Speaker:actually, getting back and think about getting back back getting back to Trife's point. Right.
Speaker:You think about these staph infections. Right? But let's think about it
Speaker:in the word way of, like, a blood infection, like sepsis. So,
Speaker:like, you get a blood infection, you're gone quickly. Right?
Speaker:So identification, diagnosis, Improvement
Speaker:in how things are being processed and identified through technology and
Speaker:through data will have a Critical
Speaker:impact on some of those things that are really truly urgent in the
Speaker:moment. I I love it. Wow. We went down a rabbit trigger here
Speaker:off our question. But that's that's what we do. I'm not even sure what question
Speaker:we are. I think we kinda It's u and number 6.
Speaker:Okay. I look forward to the day when I can use technology
Speaker:to blank.
Speaker:Totally off script, Brush my teeth and floss because that takes a lot of time
Speaker:for me throughout the day. But beyond that, I I actually am
Speaker:always, Jotting notes, and sometimes those
Speaker:notes become more formal documents and outlines and
Speaker:wireframes for The the next thing. Right?
Speaker:I'm still a very young 57. I tell my kids I'm biologically
Speaker:31. So I got 2 or 3 or more gigs in me.
Speaker:And so I look forward to using technology
Speaker:to solve for food deserts. I look forward to using
Speaker:technology to solve for a comprehensive
Speaker:approach approach to health care insurance alternatives. I think our
Speaker:insurance industry our health care insurance industry is totally broken.
Speaker:Right? The way we approach it, the way we just approach
Speaker:insurance, right, through the standard brokerage approach, through the standard
Speaker:markets approach, I think we need to open that up, and I think we can
Speaker:open up through SMEs. Right? So subject matter
Speaker:experts applied to technology. So those are the things
Speaker:Besides flossing and brushing my teeth, I would love to apply type 2.
Speaker:That's funny you made that because there was a TV show called Farscape,
Speaker:Like, in the early early 2000. And and one of the one of the plot
Speaker:points I forgot was, like, they they they have, like, little nanite,
Speaker:robots that clean and floss your teeth for you. Forget that that came up. Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah. That's a great idea.
Speaker:So our next, thought is we asked to asked that you
Speaker:share something different about yourself. You already mentioned surfing.
Speaker:So, but it, and we remind all our
Speaker:guests, not just you, to, remember it's a family podcast, and
Speaker:we wanna hang on to our clean rating.
Speaker:I think that I don't
Speaker:know how different this is, but I think my obsession
Speaker:Is what makes it different? I am obsessed with challenging the
Speaker:norm and expected behavior.
Speaker:I think that I think that too
Speaker:many of us in this world
Speaker:I've settled in the fact that this is what
Speaker:it's expected. This is what is the norm. This is what
Speaker:we're told to do, and this is how we're told to do it. Yeah. I
Speaker:think that there are more people That it could have
Speaker:a major impact on others if they would in the right way.
Speaker:Right? This is family friendly. I'm not talking to do things to to do
Speaker:things that are Harmful or nefarious around challenging norms
Speaker:and expected behaviors, but I think in a healthy way, my
Speaker:obsession with it is sometimes unhealthy, but I think that's a little different
Speaker:and maybe even a little off with me. Interesting.
Speaker:You know, one of, Frank and I, follow,
Speaker:success coaches, and and the one I'm thinking of, I know it went through
Speaker:Frank's mouth whenever we hear the word obsess, is, Grant
Speaker:Cardone. And he has a book called Be Obsessed or Be Average.
Speaker:And it's, it was a very challenging, listen for, for
Speaker:me. I know Frank Got a lot out of it as well. And,
Speaker:I I don't think there's anything wrong with being obsessed. I I think,
Speaker:yes, Like anything, it can be taken to an unhealthy
Speaker:spot. But it I don't think that that spot out you know,
Speaker:the word that popped into my mind first was extreme. But I'm not so
Speaker:sure extreme is the definition of unhealthy there. I think there
Speaker:are 2 different spots and I can hear the passion, in your
Speaker:voice, Joe. And for those listening to the audio, you can't see Joe's
Speaker:face. Here we are recording this as video, but then we usually Strip
Speaker:out the audio because we got more listeners, listening than
Speaker:watching. But I I get it. I can see
Speaker:that in your it's a good passion. It's not unhealthy at
Speaker:all in my opinion.
Speaker:Interesting. Okay, Frank. I lost track now. No. No. No. No. I think it's you.
Speaker:I think you're not And I'm going to do the audible one, then we'll ask,
Speaker:the final question, which is where people can find out more. So do you do
Speaker:you do audio books or or or, Or not. If you do, can you
Speaker:recommend a book? So I I typically don't do audio.
Speaker:I love to read, because I love words, But I
Speaker:typically love to read to take me away,
Speaker:because of my obsessed approach to things. I'm always
Speaker:on. So I have one that I can
Speaker:recommend that I read years years ago, and I still think it was one of
Speaker:the the the the more Thought provoking take
Speaker:me away books that I read, but I I do need to say first
Speaker:that the book I recommend to everyone is the bible. So that's the
Speaker:one that that I actually read every day and
Speaker:I find important as it relates to guidance, advice,
Speaker:And how I should be approaching things from a foundational perspective, but it
Speaker:also reminds me daily of my failures in trying to accomplish that.
Speaker:The other the book that I I would recommend,
Speaker:is The Genesis Code by a pseudonym
Speaker:John Case. And it's a biological thriller. So thought
Speaker:provoking, some cutting edge, interesting blending of that could
Speaker:be possible, Not possible type type stuff. Interesting.
Speaker:Awesome. Audible is a sponsor of Data Driven. If you go to the datadrivenbook.com,
Speaker:I'm sure I know that there's multiple readings of the bible. My
Speaker:my, my wife uses Audible all the time because I see it come through. There
Speaker:you go. Oh, very cool. Yeah. I I am the
Speaker:heavy user. I I use my wife's credits because we're on the same account. So,
Speaker:I don't know if that's that ranks in the share Netflix password thing, and somebody
Speaker:from Audible's gonna give me a call. I don't know, but we'll find out.
Speaker:That's what data science is all about. I have Hypothesis, I do it.
Speaker:Mhmm. Sometimes I plan the hypothesis. Sometimes it just comes out of my
Speaker:mouth. So on that note, before I say anything
Speaker:else stupid, Share something. No. We did that. Where
Speaker:can people find out more about you and your company? The best place to go
Speaker:is our website, anexus, a n n e x
Speaker:US. And by the way, a Nexus is
Speaker:for connectivity in Latin, and you guys heard through the stories
Speaker:today Yeah. That connectivity is really to what we do, so ennexushealth.com.
Speaker:Okay. Excellent. Well, thank you, and we'll let Bailey finish the
Speaker:show. Thanks for listening to Data Driven.
Speaker:If you have any suggestions for future episodes or topics you'd like us
Speaker:to explore, please reach out to us. We value
Speaker:your feedback and strive to address the needs and interests of our
Speaker:listeners.
About the author, Frank
Frank La Vigne is a software engineer and UX geek who saw the light about Data Science at an internal Microsoft Data Science Summit in 2016. Now, he wants to share his passion for the Data Arts with the world.
He blogs regularly at FranksWorld.com and has a YouTube channel called Frank's World TV. (www.FranksWorld.TV). Frank has extensive experience in web and application development. He is also an expert in mobile and tablet engineering. You can find him on Twitter at @tableteer.